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Macs? Not for me. I'd rather not get ripped off.

3/3/08 by Rage
Updated 3/3/08

First, let me begin this post by saying I never wanted to have a bias towards any type of machine. It's just not worth it. However, with the knowledge and experience I've gained over the past several years, I just cannot help it. I'll try and keep this short.

Are you a victim of aggressive branding? You might be if you purchased Apple hardware. After all, they just LOVE to rip you off. Now, I know fervent Apple enthusiasts would love to man their battle stations and pull some reason out of the air as to why they're not too expensive. However, some of the things I have pointed out on the BBS have gone unanswered and ignored, even by Mac nuts defending their territory to the left and right of me. I'm posting this here in hopes that somebody can enlighten me regarding the points I am about to bring up.

Not too long ago I was curious about what Apple has to offer on their online store. I clicked on the "Mac" tab and began to configure a Mac Pro (Apple's only computer that is reminiscent of the modular hardware that most of us are familiar with). What I saw on the configuration page was one complete ripoff after another. I'm talking about some of the biggest ripoffs I've ever seen in my life -- coming right off of apple.com. Here are some of them.

Want to upgrade from 2gb of RAM to 4gb? $500

This is the worst deal I have ever seen in my life. You can build an entire computer that has 4gb of RAM for the price of this upgrade alone. You would think the RAM is really high end, so I checked. DDR2 800 mhz. Gee. I built a machine a couple weeks ago that also had 4gb of DDR2 800 RAM. The RAM cost me $75 (And it came with really nice metal heat spreaders too).

I hope you don't want 8gb of ram. That'll be $1500. Forget that you can purchase an entire computer with 8gb of ram for this price and still have room for a new LCD monitor -- Apple wants your business.

Anyone want to tell me what justifies this?

Want RAID? Tack on a RAID card. That'll be $800, please

Where the fuck do they come up with these prices? Most of you probably aren't that familiar with RAID cards. Basically, the Apple RAID card lets you use up to four hard drives in a RAID configuration. I mean, forget that you can get a card that lets you connect up to eight drives for only $250. The Apple card has Apple in its name. That's worth the extra $550, right?

So what's up with that?

Add an Apple Cinema 20" display. Only $600 and your soul.

Price rape with an LCD. What a great idea -- Ripping people off who still think that LCD monitors are "the new great thing". They'll never know that you just reamed them. For $600, this better be a wonderful fucking monitor. Let's look at its specifications:

Apple Cinema 20":
-Opt. Resolution: 1680 x 1050
-Brightness: 300 cd/m2
-Contrast ratio: 700:1
-Response time: 14ms
-Price: $599

Wait, are you kidding me? No, are you serious? This is possibly the worst 20" monitor I have ever seen on the market, and you're being charged up the ass for it. Don't believe me? Let's take a look at another 20" LCD on the market.

KDS K-20MDWB 20":
-Opt. Resolution: 1680 x 1050
-Brightness: 300cd/m2
-Contrast ratio: 1000:1
-Response time: 5ms (2ms grey to grey)
-Price: $199

Jesus Christ, people. If you're not fucking shocked, then you might need to read this again. This monitor is EQUAL OR BETTER THAN THE APPLE CINEMA IN EVERY SPECIFICATION. YET THE APPLE CINEMA COSTS MORE THAN THREE TIMES AS MUCH. That's right. You can by THREE BETTER monitors for less than the price of one Apple Cinema 20". I'm going to have to say this one more time: Apple is charging you three times as much for a monitor that is not as good. Or good at all, for that matter. Apple's 14 ms response time is going to give you ghosting while you game. The other monitor's 5/2ms response time is VERY GOOD. Without being a third the price.

It's bad enough that you get ripped off for a monitor with bad specifications, but it doesn't stop there. At least not for me. I've seen Apple Cinema displays in real life. Tons of them, in my school's digital arts labs. They are the worst monitors I've ever seen. If you leave a window up on the computer for five minutes, the image of the window gets burned in to the monitor so bad that when you close the window, you can still see a ghost image of it that's vivid enough that you can even read its text.

By the way. The Apple Cinema has a couple USB and firewire ports. For a little extra money (We're talking in the ~$220 range), you can get a monitor that has all of that plus a 9 in 1 card reader and extra input connections. Unfortunately for the Apple Cinema, Firewire is all but phased out at this point, and USB ports are abundant everywhere.

What about the OS? I could almost leave that to another news post. Just let me say that Mac OSX has crashed on me more than any other operating system I've ever used. We're talking about on high-end Mac Pros that have been booted from a fresh disk image. Multiple Macs have crashed on me while I was simply using Photoshop, Maya, or even clicking "Go -> Connect to Server". It's not just me -- Everybody has these problems.

By the way. At my university, there's a large computer lab that is divided in to two. One side has 12 high end PC computers. The other half has 12 high end Mac computers. As of the last time I checked (About five days ago), all the PCs are operational, but 4 out of the 12 Macs on the Mac side had paper taped over the screen saying they were out of order. That's just in that room alone. I know ITS has been busy with the Mac lab down the hallway.

Also, the OS has so many annoyances. One of the foremost annoyances is that you can not treat dropdown menus as an active object. For example, in Photoshop on the PC platform, you can select the dropdown menu for font, or perhaps the blending mode of a layer, and then use the arrow keys or mouse wheel to quickly zoom through all of the options and quickly see which one works best. The Mac OS doesn't let you do this at all. Things like that, aside from crashing and being less functional, is just another thing on the list that drives me away from Mac machines.

Oh, and Macs being better at video/imaging/art crap? Stop living in 1989. Not applicable anymore. There are so many fucking idiots who still believe this. There was a topic recently where a user wanted to know if he should buy a computer from Apple or from Dell. Long story short, the Mac was half as powerful as the Dell (It had half the processor cores and half the memory), and yet numerous idiots were still recommending it for imaging/media work. Nice job, recommending a dual core over a quad core for video editing. Along with having less memory, slower memory, and a worse video card. (By the way, the Mac still managed to cost $300 more).

I'm sorry, people. A couple years ago I would have said that Macs are just another approach to computing solutions. Now I just think they're shitty ripoffs. I'm not as familiar with the Macbook line of products, but I'm already completely turned away from Apple as it is.

Any rebuttals to this damning evidence? Anyone?

Macs? Not for me. I'd rather not get ripped off.


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the university that my mom used to go to had got rid all of their old Computers (except the stone age ones) and replaced them with 10 old imacs and 5 old CRT apple computers saying that they were better then the windows 98 computers yet the PC's only had 1 or 2 BsOD or other problems every 2 years while on the first 2 days 3 of the mac computers already had "out of order" signs on the screens while the ancient DOS computers from the 70's were still going strong.

4 years later those guys had a ton of mac computers replaced and they still think apple is better then windows in every way.


I own a windows - they're way better. I mean Macintosh sounds like some kind of vegetable farm. (But then again...)


dswimr615dswimr615

8/10/08

Build...me..one? Please? Seriously ... D: I need a new computer, this apple sucks.


When will people put all of these silly "Mac vs PC" debates behind them and accept Linux into their lives as their personal lord and savior


I completely understand where you are coming from, yet most people have serious trouble with PC's and end up spending more than what a mac costs. I spent at least $3000 on getting my laptop fixed. My MacBook, has never broke once, and has always been on my side. I do hate the fact that apple overprices everything. I mean seriously, 1500 for 8 gb of ram??? And I was in the apple store, and let me tell you, never shopping there again. I absolutely hate the prices they have, yet the apple store was full. I have never had a good time from a PC, and I always find myself deleting files found on my brand new ones, because it is full of useless shit. I have tried buying from computer makers like yourself, and they sold me shit. If I could get a mix between apple and PC that would be great. If I got a PC hardware you built and the Mac OSX I'd be set. I hate the windows interface. But I see that you have had bad experiences with Mac and none with windows. You have been lucky. I'd like to get a computer off you.


I recently got a macbook for university next year which costed (my dad) about 1300 bucks. After seeing some PCs online I agree the price is ridiculous. Then again, I got a free computer, so I'm not complaining.


Yeah... Although I've been using Mac since my dad bought the family an old Power Mac 10 years ago, I do see how Apple is incredibly overpriced. You see, this March, I went to an Apple store and bought a 2.0 GHz Core 2 Duo Mid 2007 iMac for $1199, plus $100 dollars for 1 extra gig of memory. Then when I came back to town (the nearest Apple Store is in Jacksonville, nearly 200 miles), one of my friends who has an Ailenware computer showed me it's website. The computer that Alienware sells for exactly the same price completely OWNED my Mac's specs. Then he showed me the computer that his dad had built for him and it was impossibly incredible, again, all of the parts costing the same as my Mac.

I think Mac owners are paying for design; the iMac itself looks incredible, no tower, very few wires, built in camera and microphone. But I think I've learned my lesson, and the next computer I get will be built with my own hands. I just wish I could put the Mac OSX on it for dual boot, it's just that Apple has made it illegal to put their OS on a non-Apple manufactured system. So for now I'll stay away from Apple until they eventually lower their prices.

Ah, but i did find out one of Apple's dirty little secrets. You know how you can't upgrade the graphics card of an iMac? Well, theres a Mac repair shop in my city and I asked them about that. They showed me the Apple Part Replacement Order form and they have card replacements. Here's the thing though. A simple ATI Radeon 2600 XT is $200! A Nvidia Geforce 8800? $300! And you can't replace the iMac's card with just any card, Apple has a modified PCI-e port deep inside the computer. I'll give the upgrade a shot (just won $300) and see if its worth it.


I hate MACs.


But... My mommy bought me my mac...


You obviously don't know good computers.


wwhhaattwwhhaatt

8/2/08

Oh and completetly forgot, Zune's are a Helluva a lot cheaper then Ipods, with more memories. Mac's. are gay.


wwhhaattwwhhaatt

8/2/08

Bit unrelated but my friend wants a PC. He currently has a 1200$ mac, with 1gb of ram. (Basically he wants to play games with me and other guys) A couple nights while attemtping to run Windows on bootcamp, he broke his comp. I. Dislike. Mac's. Greatly. They're shitty. God damn right click wasn't working on his Logitech mouse for it, and ctrl+click wasn't either.


Thank you, now I know not to buy from apple.


YrtnejYrtnej

7/31/08

I am elated to have a Windows XP, and now I have never been elated-er.

Sure, sure. Macs have some shiny outsides, some lightweight laptops, and some fanboys who obviously never looked at the REALITY of the "Better side." But, really, what do they have, REALLY, in comparison?

Yes, macs suck cock. I am actually ashamed to have one sitting in my basement. But, nevertheless, I liked it back when you could play Age of Empires on it, and use Garageband, but that's mainly it.

I already made an agreement with my dad. If I ever want to spend my money on a mac, unless they REALLY came out with a better computer, [Hehe, that will probably never happen.] then he slap me, then talk me out of it.

Anyways, cheers on sticking it to the Macs.


REA002REA002

7/30/08

well, there you have it:

mac (it doesnt deserve a capital "m")= EPIC FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!


Holy shit, you're right, that's ridiculous.


Anim8or666Anim8or666

7/28/08

Also, I don't know much about Windows, but can you assign a keyboard shortcut to almost every function on a Windows computer? (I mean in the OS itself, not in a program). Macs you can navigate with very little use of the mouse, while Windows forces you to do most navigation with a mouse.


Anim8or666Anim8or666

7/28/08

Well gee, maybe if more people bought Macs, they'd be cheaper. I highly doubt Windows machines would be so cheap if only 4% of the market used them. Apple has to raise their prices because otherwise, they'd be bleeding out. Also, my experience with Windows has been shit. Vista sucks though, because by default it's way too distracting, and if you turn off everything, it looks like a Windows 95 machine. Mac OS X is pleasing to look at (IMO), and provides the perfect balance between eye candy and usability.


HaggardHaggard

7/28/08

I've worked on a few Macs and MacBooks so far, they never crashed on me. Plus, I found them pretty easy to navigate (multiple desktops can be fun! ;) ).

BUT! I would never buy a Mac myself, because they are so insanely priced, as you showed in this post. I don't get why I have to pay $300+ bucks just for the Apple brand. And it's the same thing with ALL Apple products. Just look at the iPod... I mean, $280 for a 8GB iPod touch?
I currently have a 4GB MP3-Player and guess what? I payed less than $30 for that! Ohh, it doesn't have a touch screen... but seriously, a touch screen doesn't satisfy that insanely high price of the iPod touch.

And speaking of the iPod touch... it's another thing that annoys me about Apple. First, they release the iPod. Then they wait a few month, take away a few things from the iPod and then they release the iPod nano. And all the fanboys that already own a regular iPod run to the stores and buy an iPod nano...
Then Apple waits another few months, takes away the play button and releases the iPod shuffle... and all the fanboys... yeah, you get the idea.

And what about the iPhone? It has a nice display, all right. But other than that it has no functions that my old mobile doesn't offer, too. I can surf the internet (yeah right.. who uses a mobile for that anyways?), I can take pictures and I can phone people (well, that's what a phone is for after all, right?). And I even can type without having to use a stupid touch screen.

Ok, enough with this rant. You posted what I was thinking here. ;)


lawlmasterlawlmaster

7/27/08

Well i know now not to buy a mac or other Apple computer software.


SashunoSashuno

7/19/08

Well, I like the mac background and the toolbar at the bottom.
*cough*Windows Blinds*cough*
You've just confirmed my suspicions that Apple is a big ripoff.


slackerzacslackerzac

7/18/08

hello


Mac is an expensive Linux.

EDN


KennyDKennyD

7/14/08

I consolted my brother (he does fancy stuff with computers for Chevron) and he did advise me to go the PC route in part because of price, compatibility with 3rd parties, and overall value. He did tell me that the OS for apple was bit more streamlined (I think its just a matter of personal opinion) but as far as my OS system, Vista, I've had zero problems. I've been running it for about 6 months now, and I haven't crashed once. So I don't know what all the complaints are about.


i really don't care about what this guy is posting. NG is not a question box.

7/13/08 Rage responds:

This coming from an angry child who bitched me out because of a BBS ban -- When I wasn't the mod who banned him. The ban was even signed by a different moderator.

Did you get your parents' permission to register an account here?


5143051430

7/11/08

Man, those prices are insane. If you can build a better computer fro a fraction of the cost of one of those Mac Pro's, consider OSX86 if you REALLY still want the Mac computer. Yes, a less costly, but still awesome computer CAN become a mac. This, however, can be classed as 'illegal'. But spending that much on a mac computer is fucking ridiculous. I mean, thay're only good if you buy the awesome features with them, but not many people have that much $$$ on them, so they're stuck with the piece of shit Macs, much like those that exist in your school, most likely.

If you don't want to get ripped off by the outrageaus prices of a mac, but still want one, then OSX86 really is the way to go here. Then you can just multi-boot to Windows if Mac OS pisses you off. Hell, if you get arrested. you can sue them for outrageous pricing if you're so inclined.


Full on man! I thought iPods were a bit expensive, but that's insane! The Apple liscened iPod headphones are around $50 bucks a pair (obscene!) and those broke after two months of using them. I found a $10 pair that was more durable and sound 3 times better!


Oh my god... you are right. Well I'll stay with my KUbuntu Linux. I have the same things as mac and pc users have, for free. Have fun getting ripped off Mac people.


you are god


You're a cheapskate, eh? I still say it's better to go and spend $2000+ for a Mac rather than buying $2000+ worth of drugs. I totally agree that the Mac Pro is overpriced. The other Mac hardware is reasonably priced, however. MacBook- $1200 iMac- $1300. The base spec are pretty good, and you can get a high-end iMac for about $2000. Upgradeability? The hard drive and RAM are user-replaceable on nearly all Mac models. Besides, most people don't bother upgrading, even with PC's. My dad's a photographer, and he's rather computer savvy, yet somehow, there were over 100 viruses on the computer last time I checked, and there's a firewall and anti-virus on there. Not to mention my dad's computer also got hacked twice. How do you explain that? My MacBook Pro cost me $2000, which isn't even that much. I upgraded the RAM with Kingston memory, which didn't cost much at all. However, I prefer the clean Mac OS X interface over the cluttered Windows interface, but that's just my opinion. And I've been using Windows since I was 5, and using a Mac since I was 10. I dunno what's with your school Macs, they're probably bloated and full of the trash that students download onto them. Macs are like sports cars, meaning they run really nicely and look good, but you need to maintain them properly. Mac laptops are generally good deals because of their reliability. One of my friends has had a 12" PowerBook for about years, and he tosses the thing in his backpack every day, with no protective casing, and it still looks good and works fine. The Mac Pro is overpriced, and in my opinion, only for professionals who prefer OS X. I couldn't agree with you more about the Cinema Displays. They quality seems good for me, but I can get the same good quality from a cheap Dell monitor. That's the end of my little presentation.

7/7/08 Rage responds:

I love how you think not being a retard with money makes you a cheapskate. The $1100 computer I built outperformed $3200 Mac Pros. I'm not just saying that -- I BENCHMARKED it.

If as many people don't bother with PC upgrades as you think, there wouldn't be a gigantic market for it.

Your dad's obviously not as computer savvy as you'd like to think.

"Cluttered" is a subjective term, and Windows is as cluttered as you choose to make it.

The Macs at my university are booted from a clean disk image between each class.


TheWolfeTheWolfe

7/7/08

Do you mind if i use this new post against macs for mine? Ill provide a link and credibility.
I do hate macs. Just wish they werent given to schools for free.


It's true that the hardware on Macs is worse, but their software is worlds better.

Right now I have an XPS M1330, a FINE piece of hardware, that has to run Vista. It's absolutely ridiculous how my computer works. Vista has basically trashed itself.

I'm switching to an Apple soon, until Windows 7 (supposed to be off the wall crazy) comes out in 2010.


e-XploD-ee-XploD-e

6/26/08

Just upgrade the ram aftermarket, and buy a different monitor!


AprimeAprime

6/20/08

omg ur gold in everything

Congrats!


get a window's xp. its working great for me =D

had this for 5 year's, all you have to do is every 6 month's, take off the plastic outer layer and clean the dust with cleaning alcohaul. it oughta work fine after that


LampFaceLampFace

6/11/08

101th comment.


Error - Your comment was too short. Please add more and try again.


I'm glad someone finally sees this. The only reason that they're more secure than windows is that no one uses them. The point of a virus is to spread WIDESPREAD havoc. Also You're just paying for the OS. the computers really aren't that great. I will willingly admit that the are good for video editing but they suck for everything else. They don't even support most software.

-Sandy


Mac likes to bullshit all of us with their prices. I'll stick to Microsoft.


And sorry for the double post but about the dead pixel thing.

I have a 24 inch screen with 1680 x 1050 here on my desk what is older than 1,5 year now almost 2 years, no dead pixels and I have a pc over here almost 6 years old also from Dell and that screen also has no dead pixels and I have a 7 year old screen also over here that also has no dead pixels and Dell has always freaking worked for me so never say it sucks or is crap and the dell upgrades aren't expensive at all and it also is quality, HIGH QUALITY


Used apple mac's, nothing special. the vista interface is much better and user friendly than mac os x has been to me. Self build systems are great.

On the moment I use Dell and I have to say, Dell is really great ( my experience ) and I have Windows XP, no better OS exists for me, and vista isn't that bad ( once again my experience) and of course, apple just wants money, and microsoft has brought down the price of vista ^^


Thats all well and good. This isn't a challenge and know that I know nothing at all about computers, but if all that you say is true then why the hell does just about everyone in video editing use Final Cut on the Mac? A good friend of mine who is now lookind for a job as an editor used to build his own computers, and now he just bought a Mac, and I hear from my other friend that while he was working on a movie in Florida that as it was being shot, it immediately got transferred into 2 G4's on set. Is something wrong with these guys, or are Macs actually better for video editing? I'm set to get myself a laptop soon, too. What would you recommend?


I'm using PC


biozombiexbiozombiex

4/26/08

The only OS ive ever ran were
windows 98 , and xp , and vista .
i myself am a very avid animator and have always used windows to animate . when i go to school and animate with macs everything feel diffrent and is awkward . and i know its a standard rule to save often when animating but omfg the stupid comp at my school frekkin crashed on me . i said to hell with this and i brought in my lappy and the teacher had no objections . because deep down he knew mac was full of bull . and i myself personally would never in my life spend all that money for that sub par bull that i could get 10 x s cheaper . thank zeus for steering me clear of macs when i was younger =) (and yes i worship the greek gods ) also i would like to add that i thank u for pointing this out gonna go to school and show my friends this .


i hate mac. the new models r ok but i hate mac all together.

oh and i luv ur submission "jesus pranks wendys" =]


Ya, Macs suck!


satanbrainsatanbrain

4/20/08

i got question , my thread is spam and all the 20/4 isn't? i saw 99% of the users here is nazis.


powerman-xpowerman-x

4/20/08

Macs really are ridiculously overpriced. thats no secret. But if one can find a good deal on a mac, then its totally worth it. Ive had my share of both worlds and using a Mac is hands down way more enjoyable and less frustrating.


Minion777Minion777

4/19/08

Bring Sally up, bring Sally down.